Value selection behavior

Post your feature requests/wishlist here

How should value selection behave?

Mouse-click, "Enter" or Tabbing in a text field produces cursor insert point (the current approach)
1
25%
Mouse-click, "Enter" or Tabbing in a text field selects the entire content of the field
3
75%
 
Total votes : 4

Value selection behavior

Postby buckwheatandgrits » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:40 pm

I know Plogue is not a democracy, but since the poll option is still here I thought I'd try it out... : :lol: :twisted:

With certain instruments/groups sometimes the only way to get a "sound" is to enter various values manually and see what happens, since the UI sliders don't have the same precision as the underlying value range floats/whatever, etc. blah blah, and sometimes I sort of hit a groove during improvisation just by typing in values as quickly as I can, and clicking/tabbing back and forth between different UI value fields. So, optimizing manual numeric entry can really help in time sensitive situations.

(I might be talking about two separate things here: what happens while mouse-clicking into a field, and what happens after entering a value and the field is still the field that is active/has focus.)

Just thought I'd ask folks what YOU would prefer. I'll just say right now that I think option 2 is a better way of clicking/messing with fields:

1) The existing behavior: when clicking in a field, an insert point is established between the values where you've clicked

2) When clicking into a field OR entering a new value, whatever the value is then *selected*, so that any new value entered will overwrite it (this way one doesn't have to hit CMD/CTRL A after hitting Enter every time). A second click or cursor keystroke will place the cursor into whatever desired specific place.

...for extra credit, what about a keystroke cursor key combo where you can access the previous/next n values of that field...? (I know that would be a whole nasty bit of new shit to write... but it would be nice!)
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby BassnHarp » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:53 am

I think if you were to use Shift-Home after you enter your value, you may get the behavior you want without leaving the keyboard and grabbing for the mouse. Enter the value then hit enter then Shift-Home. That will highlight the entire value and you are ready to put a new value in. It is an extra and somewhat awkward key combination but if you use it a lot you may find it easy. I assume you could also program a function key to do it for you as well.
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby buckwheatandgrits » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:24 am

Right. This is what I currently do, but it's an extra step. What I want is to be able to enter a value, hit enter, enter another value, hit enter, etc., without having to CTRL/CMD A or having Shift Home/Shift Arrows. EDIT: Like how a spreadsheet works, except the current field remains in focus after hitting enter. Actually, now that I think about it, what about Tab working like Enter except that it takes you to the next field?

My feeling is that usually people who change a value in a field manually want to change more than one digit. In fact, for those who do only want to change specific digits currently they have to mouse or cursor around in the value to replace what they want, which is prone to error if you're trying to work quickly- it might just be faster and easier to enter a new value completely (obviously this depends).
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby BassnHarp » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:09 pm

Yeah, sorry I didn't read your entire post the first time. Here is something I put together for you. It's a Windows EXE that will show up in your lower toolbar. It will remap your \ (backslash) and give you an ENTER and then a SHIFT HOME. You can right click on the icon and "suspend" the hotkey remap if you need to use the backslash for something.

I used a product called AutoHotKey to create it. It is a pretty cool tool that believe it or not I just found online and was able to figure out pretty quickly. It's a slow day :)

AutoPlogue.zip
(197.04 KiB) Downloaded 23 times
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby BassnHarp » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:34 pm

BTW, I could have macro'd the Enter key itself to ENTER + SHIFT/HOME but it would be that way everywhere. Since you can turn it on and off that may be what you want however. Let me know, it would take me about 30 seconds to create a new EXE if you want it.
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby buckwheatandgrits » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:21 pm

Ah- I never thought of that! Thanks for putting that together but unfort. I'm on mac~ I'll look into this when I get home....
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby BassnHarp » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:49 pm

I should have figured that, and probably why I missed it in your first post. CMD/CTRL A is NOT a Windows key combination. Oh well at least I found a handy tool for myself, and maybe others reading this.
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby Skillet » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:33 pm

Would prefer clicking goes to an insert point and enter or tab highlights the whole thing... Actually I thought that was what happened already. :lol: What I'd really like is for shift+dragging to change it in smaller increments.
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby buckwheatandgrits » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:03 pm

Hey Skillet, yes- that is what happens already... heh heh... it's option #1 on the poll- in other words, "who likes it like how it already is? If so, choose #1." I agree completely about the fine control/shift drag though- I think you started a thread about it ages ago and I +1'ed. I built a fine-slider that works pretty well but I never use it... it would just be better it it were built in, I think. Another idea: What about putting the insert point somewhere in a value and whatever digit is left of it you can Shift-cursor key to change it in increments of 1 (holding it down would then be subject to whatever your system key-repaet rate is, so values could change pretty quickly, but be continuous)? That would be another nice way of implementing fine control.

Seriously, no one agrees that #2 is better?! To reiterate: when clicking or tabbing into a field the entire value is highlighted, so inputting a new value overwrites the old completely. Upon hitting Enter the new value is set and it remains completely highlighted. If you want to change a single digit you can either click again with the mouse o establish insert point or use the cursor keys. Last night I had a great chord-timbre grain sound going that was non-linear and very sensitive, i.e., small manipulations in the values produced large changes in sound, and there were values that produced chord-tones that were deeper/lower, in between higher and lower values that were higher pitch. So, to navigate something like that required that I manually input values really quickly. However, I've been wanting this for years and only just now thought to mention it~

Thanks to BassnHarp's idea though, I guess I can just do that (if I can't make everyone else see reason :x )
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby Skillet » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:00 am

I get it now - click once to highlight, click again for the cursor. That sounds good.

I think shift+arrow keys would be confusing to change values since that shortcut already highlights things - but maybe after highlighting it, the up and down arrow keys without shift should increment the value. Combined with tab for changing fields that would make it easy to change a lot of stuff precisely just with the keyboard.

Weird thing I just noticed - if you previously had a whole field highlighted, tabbing into it highlights it again (but not clicking).
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby buckwheatandgrits » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:22 am

Hmm... that is weird, and really good to know about. Even weirder, you can select only a few digits of a field then tab back into it and it reselects those same digits. So apparently there is some little memory somewhere with selection data...?
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby BassnHarp » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:59 am

Are any of you guys on this post using the Windows version of Bidule? I have been working on a small utility that allows you to set change increments to values in these types of numeric edit fields and then you can use Alt-UpArrow or Alt-DownArrow to change the value by these user defined increments. Is there any interest out there?
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby buckwheatandgrits » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:46 pm

(Damn- just saw this. I don't know why I didn't get an alert that you replied)

I'm very interested, but I'm on Mac! I still haven't had time to look into how to do this on Mac, but you should definitely share this anyway!
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby BassnHarp » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:37 pm

OK, I know you both are Mac guys but I just posted my solution to this request. It only works for Windows. http://plogue.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5965
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Re: Value selection behavior

Postby jersmi » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:33 am

my vote when opening a bidule or group with UI:
when UI is opened, no text field is selected and no cursor is present
tab highlights entire first text field
tab again goes to next text field, fully highlighted
mouse click adds cursor to any text field

which means i almost vote for #2, except i think mouse behavior should be separate from keyboard. and yes to fine increments.
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