MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

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Craig163
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:07 am

MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby Craig163 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:48 pm

Probably a simple challange for you experts:

I want to supress notes after a first note event in a range of milliseconds.

This refers to a buggy e-drum cymbal pad that sends several notes with the same note number after the origin hit (when it is played quite hard). I only want the first and origin event and supress all later notes in a range of some milliseconds.

Can you please help me and post a solution?

Thank you so much! :)

NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:45 pm

I'll wait for what the experts do too! :lol:

In the meantime, little experiment here. :roll:
2017-12-14_BiduleNoteOnBlocker.png
2017-12-14_BiduleNoteOnBlocker.png (93.12 KiB) Viewed 450 times


14Dec_NoteOnBlockTime.bidule
(97.83 KiB) Downloaded 5 times

Craig163
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:07 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby Craig163 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:45 am

Thanks for your efforts but it does not work for me.

I made a little sketch to show you what I mean. Only NoteOn events matter here. The unwanted note(s) is (are) only very few milliseconds after the origin event. The 300 ms for the next origin and wanted note is only an example and also the 10 ms for the unwanted note (could also be only 1 ms)...
Attachments
supress notes challange.JPG
supress notes challange.JPG (12.16 KiB) Viewed 418 times

NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:04 am

Yes, I basically understood your request from the original post, though having an explicit note and timing is useful. How do you observe those?
(NOTED: a 32nd note at 130 bpm seems 58 mS duration... Smallest I can measure in first tool seems to 12mS)
I assume you changed the note filter I provided (D#3) to your note of interest...
Also by does not work, I take it to mean (after the note filter is set) the notes continue to get through. :?:


My concept was based on the idea - 'you can't have a new note on w/o a note off' - so I triggered on note off to keep the first. (Complication - the standard allows a note on w/velocity of zero to be treated as a note off. I guess that is the case for your device. :?: )

I'll take another look, while waiting on the experts... :roll:

Craig163
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:07 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby Craig163 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:55 am

NTO wrote:How do you observe those?
(NOTED: a 32nd note at 130 bpm seems 58 mS duration...)

This is for e-drums and durations don't matter. It is a cheap cymbal pad connected to a cheap TriggerToMidi device that even does not send any noteOFF events.
I notice double and tripple triggers when playing the cymbal pad and I can observe the notes with a midi monitor.


NTO wrote:I assume you changed the note filter I provided (D#3) to your note of interest...
Also by does not work, I take it to mean (after the note filter is set) the notes continue to get through. :?:

I don' understand your note filter. The incoming events are only noteON events with the same note number: 25 (C#2)


NTO wrote:I'll take another look, while waiting on the experts... :roll:

Cool, thank you very much!

NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:01 am

Craig163 wrote:This is for e-drums and durations don't matter. It is a cheap cymbal pad connected to a cheap TriggerToMidi device that even does not send any noteOFF events.
I notice double and tripple triggers when playing the cymbal pad and I can observe the notes with a midi monitor.


Sorry, the discussion is about durations :?:

"...notice ..." By ear?

"...midi monitor." Which one?

(Techno geek interest level :lol: )

EDIT: "I don' understand your note filter. "
We don't want to effect other notes in the midi data stream, assuming Bidule sees the composite stream from the drum set...
I was just using a cymbal note from the drum patch loaded, didn't know the actual of interest, so filter was for D#3.

Craig163
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:07 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby Craig163 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:16 am

With "durations" I mean Midi note length. This does not matter for percussion. A note with only noteON message has no duration (or better it lasts forever)

And of course you can notice double and tripple triggers by ear (it sounds like "flams" or short rolls when there are several unwanted notes coming in a little later) and any midi montior shows more than 1 noteON event. I use the midi montor of Bidule and Cubase and thirdParty plugins. They all show the same. A correct and clean triggering would be only one noteOn event at a time.


NTO wrote:EDIT: "I don' understand your note filter. "
We don't want to effect other notes in the midi data stream, assuming Bidule sees the composite stream from the drum set...
I was just using a cymbal note from the drum patch loaded, didn't know the actual of interest, so filter was for D#3.

Ok, I see.

NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:34 am

I'm something of a noob, but the only Bidule monitor I've found w/timing is the plain midi monitor. Showing my current test case below.

Can you please post a screencap of a single strike of the problem pad, shown in that monitor?

2017-12-16_BiduleMidiMonitorNoteTimes.png
2017-12-16_BiduleMidiMonitorNoteTimes.png (24.74 KiB) Viewed 403 times

Craig163
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:07 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby Craig163 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:06 am

ok, here it is:
Attachments
MidiMon.JPG
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NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:40 am

Craig163 wrote:ok, here it is:

Thanks! :D
Interesting to note the velocity dying away - like a delay effect. So it's not the same note in repetition...

Peeling the onion :roll:

may be intuitive to the experts (DOH! :shock: :lol: )

Ticks based on sample rate - 44100 Hz - 0.0226757369614512 mS sample time
Example provided (defeat the whitespace stripper!)
Tick-------------Tick-dec---------InterTick-dec----InterTick-mSec
03b09180-------61903232
03b095c0-------61904320--------1088--------------24.67
03b0a0c0-------61907136--------2816--------------63.85

NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:37 am

Craig163 wrote:The 300 ms for the next origin and wanted note is only an example...


Next question
What is the minimum spacing/time to a real/desired note on?

Craig163
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:07 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby Craig163 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:44 am

NTO wrote:Next question
What is the minimum spacing/time to a real/desired note on?

For my playing I would say 220 ms.

NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:25 pm

Give this a try.
It's a module I did awhile ago, where notes less than the on time were an undesirable defect. It might be a benefit for your purpose.
Concept Monitors to view,,,
2017-12-16_BiduleNoteTimer.png
2017-12-16_BiduleNoteTimer.png (33.94 KiB) Viewed 381 times


File - I think the group will come w/it
16Dec_NoteOnByTime.bidule
(36.74 KiB) Downloaded 8 times

Craig163
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:07 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby Craig163 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:52 pm

Wow! This is exactly what I was looking for! You are legend! Thanks so much! :D :D :D :D

Can you tell me the origin name of the bidule "219 mS Notes"? That would additionally be very nice to know.

NTO
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: MIDI experts please help: supress notes after a first event

Postby NTO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Yeah, if you double click a block, it will open the Bidule object. That's just an integer variable. You can adjust earlier/smaller if you are not getting a 'desired next note played'.

Glad it gets it for you!
Play on! :lol:


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